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	<title>Comments on: How does One Invest in a Company whose Price will Decline? Part 1</title>
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	<link>http://ChromaInvesting.com/2010/06/02/how-does-one-invest-in-a-company-whose-price-will-decline-part-1/#utm_source=feed&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=feed</link>
	<description>Value Investing for beginning &#38; small time investors and the value investing strategies of Graham &#38; Klarman</description>
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		<title>By: chroma</title>
		<link>http://ChromaInvesting.com/2010/06/02/how-does-one-invest-in-a-company-whose-price-will-decline-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>chroma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 06:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ChromaInvesting.com/?p=2107#comment-125</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your opinion. Stop orders don&#039;t contain guarantees except that you will sell. Unfortunately, to me, when they are triggered is not always the best time and since no price is guaranteed, in a free fall situation the losses can be substantial before your order is filled. As you suggest the advantage of buying options is that you know what your financial risk is when you purchase the contract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your opinion. Stop orders don&#8217;t contain guarantees except that you will sell. Unfortunately, to me, when they are triggered is not always the best time and since no price is guaranteed, in a free fall situation the losses can be substantial before your order is filled. As you suggest the advantage of buying options is that you know what your financial risk is when you purchase the contract.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Pinsen</title>
		<link>http://ChromaInvesting.com/2010/06/02/how-does-one-invest-in-a-company-whose-price-will-decline-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Pinsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ChromaInvesting.com/?p=2107#comment-124</guid>
		<description>In theory, of course, it&#039;s true that the potential losses when shorting are uncapped -- after all, a stock can rise infinitely (in theory), while it can only go down 100%. In practice though, short sellers often manage their risk more conservatively than some long-only value investors. 

Pros such as Tim Knight, William O&#039;Neil, and Bart DiLiddo all use fairly tight stops when shorting. So, in practice -- although their potential loss on a short position might be &quot;infinite&quot; in theory -- in reality, they&#039;re more likely to take a loss of 10% or less on a short that goes against them. On the contrary, some long-only value investors will hold a long position (or continue to add to it) after it drops 50% or more.

I think the bigger reason many investors eschew shorting isn&#039;t so much their perceptions of its risk (though that may be a part of it) as their fear of going against the herd. After all, we all risk 100% losses every time we buy stock, but since almost everyone else is doing it, most investors tend not to dwell on that risk too much. But shorting feels scarier because you&#039;re often standing alone. 

Another point to bear in mind is that while shorting alone may be risky, it can be less risky to combine shorting and long investing. A market-neutral portfolio constructed of long positions paired with short positions in the same industries can cancel out most market and industry risk. 

And of course another way to limit risk when betting against stocks is to buy puts on them (which I assume you were planning to cover in your next post). Buying puts also gives you the opportunity of generating returns greater than 100%, but it has some additional challenges. E.g., you have to take into account volatility, time decay, spreads (which can be pretty wide on thinly-traded options), etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In theory, of course, it&#8217;s true that the potential losses when shorting are uncapped &#8212; after all, a stock can rise infinitely (in theory), while it can only go down 100%. In practice though, short sellers often manage their risk more conservatively than some long-only value investors. </p>
<p>Pros such as Tim Knight, William O&#8217;Neil, and Bart DiLiddo all use fairly tight stops when shorting. So, in practice &#8212; although their potential loss on a short position might be &#8220;infinite&#8221; in theory &#8212; in reality, they&#8217;re more likely to take a loss of 10% or less on a short that goes against them. On the contrary, some long-only value investors will hold a long position (or continue to add to it) after it drops 50% or more.</p>
<p>I think the bigger reason many investors eschew shorting isn&#8217;t so much their perceptions of its risk (though that may be a part of it) as their fear of going against the herd. After all, we all risk 100% losses every time we buy stock, but since almost everyone else is doing it, most investors tend not to dwell on that risk too much. But shorting feels scarier because you&#8217;re often standing alone. </p>
<p>Another point to bear in mind is that while shorting alone may be risky, it can be less risky to combine shorting and long investing. A market-neutral portfolio constructed of long positions paired with short positions in the same industries can cancel out most market and industry risk. </p>
<p>And of course another way to limit risk when betting against stocks is to buy puts on them (which I assume you were planning to cover in your next post). Buying puts also gives you the opportunity of generating returns greater than 100%, but it has some additional challenges. E.g., you have to take into account volatility, time decay, spreads (which can be pretty wide on thinly-traded options), etc.</p>
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		<title>By: chroma</title>
		<link>http://ChromaInvesting.com/2010/06/02/how-does-one-invest-in-a-company-whose-price-will-decline-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>chroma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 03:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ChromaInvesting.com/?p=2107#comment-118</guid>
		<description>I am not arguing that anyone should use shorting as part of their tool box in value investing, just that it shouldn&#039;t be excluded. I am also not comfortable with shorting for myself. I am more interested in developing a suitable strategy using options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not arguing that anyone should use shorting as part of their tool box in value investing, just that it shouldn&#8217;t be excluded. I am also not comfortable with shorting for myself. I am more interested in developing a suitable strategy using options.</p>
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		<title>By: Mariusz Skonieczny</title>
		<link>http://ChromaInvesting.com/2010/06/02/how-does-one-invest-in-a-company-whose-price-will-decline-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariusz Skonieczny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 06:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ChromaInvesting.com/?p=2107#comment-117</guid>
		<description>While some value investors like Tilson short stocks, I never felt comfortable with it. The downside is so much larger than the upside. Also people who are running the company are doing everything they can to make the stock price go up. It doesn&#039;t make any sense trying to bet against them. That&#039;s just my two cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While some value investors like Tilson short stocks, I never felt comfortable with it. The downside is so much larger than the upside. Also people who are running the company are doing everything they can to make the stock price go up. It doesn&#8217;t make any sense trying to bet against them. That&#8217;s just my two cents.</p>
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